I was commenting over at Main Street Plaza on a post where the questions were brought up about why faith is bad, why rationality is good, whether we're ever really rational at all, and how (or if) individuals subjectively experience the "supernatural" and how that influences faith and religion.
I had a lot to say and wrote a crazy long comment which I decided to turn into a blog post.
It started with the following statement by one of the commenters:
We all use reason, but I weigh supernatural experience (as experienced by me) more heavily as evidence than you all.
Well that's obviously true, as I think that what is termed a "supernatural" experience isn't anything of the sort, and therefore isn't any sort of evidence for gods or the supposed positive effects of faith. I weigh it as having exactly zero evidentiary usefulness towards explaining reality, except in as far as the experience itself can be explained by reason - which I'll touch on in a bit.
Labelling the unexplained "supernatural" because there is no known natural cause is how religion got started in the first place when humans didn't know how suns were formed or why grass grew or how we evolved or why we reproduce sexually or how water freezes and so on ad infinitum. Of course, we've narrowed the gap between the unknown and the known, but it is still there. There are just far fewer things now that people try to explain as "supernatural". However, when we encounter something unexplained, we still have the impulse to label it as "supernatural" when the real explanation is that there is simply no current explanation, at least not to the individual at that time. Giving the "supernatural" "explanation" to an unexplained event is pointless because that's not useful, because it's a cop-out, because there's no way to check to see if that's the actual cause, and because it takes the onus from us to try to explain those events or experiences. It may be that some things aren't explicable, but that doesn't mean we should be lazy and label them "supernatural" when there is no evidence at all for anything supernatural existing, and because giving some unexplained event the label of "supernatural" is as silly as it was to say that the sun was a god who needed burnt human sacrifice to be convinced to get up each morning.
Even more implausible is trying to posit the existence of a single (or even a couple) version of the supernatural as the one "true" version. There being no evidence, no possibility of objectifying and measuring any particular supernatural world-view, every single one is therefore equally valid. It is completely ridiculous to even entertain the notion that there is some part of existence which cannot ever be measured, quantified, observed, or known. As soon as we start making such suppositions where does it end? If one god is real because of faith or so called "supernatural" experiences then we have to assume that all gods are real, all imaginations of every human is equally valid and real. Simply because a delusion is shared by many people doesn't make it any less a delusion.
In fact, I am convinced (until I've been presented with a more reasonable, convincing argument) that science is more than able to explain what many term "supernatural" experiences as natural events that happen in our brains, and have no basis in a reality that isn't measurable by science or reason. Any feelings I had when at church, praying, reading the Book of Mormon, or etc., when I was a Mormon I now know weren't any indicator of the supernatural (least of all the Mormon supernatural) but rather were biochemical, psychological, and other reactions (including many psychosomatic) that are natural and explicable, and happen to many, many humans in every culture and religion in the world.
While I know that my experiences, thoughts, feelings, and ideas are quite subjective, and that I'm not able to adequately distance myself from my own biases and prejudices to really be truly objective about my experiences, I can do a reasonable approximation of it when I look at a bigger picture. When I see that my experiences are not unique at all, but are wholly common to probably nearly every human, I can see that what at the time may seem to be a supernatural occurrence is actually nothing of the sort when I look at how brains work in general.
When I see that a Muslim has the same faith in their version of Allah that I had in my personal Mormon version of God, or that my experiences weren't at all different from those of any other religious person's, and that in fact that all types of non-physical reality-based belief are exactly the same means that my feeling that God was telling me the Book of Mormon was "of God", that Joseph Smith was his prophet, that being gay was evil that Jesus wanted me to go on a mission etc. can't possibly have been correct, but rather what I felt was my own desire to have what I was brainwashed/told/taught to believe be true. Indeed that has been shown by many, many psychological studies to be how the we cope with competing ideas and desires. Even though I wanted to not be burdened by the strictures of Mormon doctrines, I couldn't then conceive of a life without religious belief, and so created the feelings in myself to support the belief I already had. Those feelings weren't indicators that the belief was a valid one, simply that it was one that my psyche needed to preserve because it was a fundamental part of my world-view and self-concept. Logically, that is the only explanation that makes any sense at all, for all the explanations given by any one or all religions are all mutually contradictory and/or exclusive, and cannot be true, right, or in any way a useful or correct indicator of what is real in any meaningful sense of the word "real".
While we are very subjective beings by our nature, that doesn’t mean that we can’t step outside that limitation at times and use rationality and logic to get at the reality of our existence and our environment. The best logic and reason we can come up with very strongly suggests that the reality of the situation is that the chance of any gods/the supernatural existing at all is very slim. The chance of a supernatural-concept existing even remotely similar to how any one person conceives of is infinitesimally smaller (smaller in fact than the chance of life evolving in the first place in a totally natural way - untampered-with by gods or whatnot), and the chance of any group of people's (inevitably contradictory) concept of god being real smaller still.
Is it possible? Yes, it is, but so incredibly improbable (and unprovable) that is useless, silly, and a waste of time to seriously entertain the possibility. The obsession humanity has with religion and faith is purely detrimental. We as a species need to get outside our own heads and self-importance and see that faith and prayer and religion and magical thinking and prophets and baseless speculation about the “supernatural” don’t solve a damn thing, but rather make everything worse.
Faith is a negative because it teaches that belief in ideas for which there is no evidence is a virtue, when it is actually humanity’s greatest vice. We are remarkable only in as much as we are alive at all. We're no more special or at the centre of any grand cosmic scheme than some bacterium is. We're here by chance coupled with an evolutionary history that bred us and all life over billions of years to be the best suited organisms for our environment. That's it. No gods, no reason for faith, no basis for religion.
Even if there is some grand cause of everything, it's not like anything we've yet conceived of, and we can't see it or measure it's effects in any way, so it might as well not exist. And we've got better and more pressing things to take care of than to worry about whether made-up entities like Jesus or Jehovah or Allah or Shiva or Frigga or Zeus or Ra are the right imaginary deity to worship, or which of the untestable claims of Hinduism or Buddhism or Mormonism or Catholicism or Shintoism or Daoism is the best representation of an imagined supernatural world which exists outside/inside/over/under our own.
Personally I'm far more concerned about poverty and hunger and disease prevention, and whether I'm going to have health-care next year (let alone a job), or how to get it through the thick skulls of the crazies that all humans deserve the same treatment, and that comprehensive sex education is an amazingly good thing, and that socialism isn't going to eat your children in the middle of the night. Or how to stop our atmosphere from boiling off.
As a race, we've got no time to indulge in useless fantasies and faith, because we're not going to need a supernatural Armageddon, we're doing a dandy fine job of that all on our own, the natural way.




3 wisdomy word(s):
As I wrote at MSP
We as a species need to get outside our own heads and see that faith and prayer and religion and magical thinking and prophets and baseless speculation about the “supernatural” don’t solve a damn thing, but rather make everything worse.
Faith is a negative because it teaches that belief in ideas for which there is no evidence is a virtue, when it is actually humanity’s greatest vice.
I have to respectfully disagree. Faith and prayer and religion and magical thinking and prophets and “baseless speculation about the supernatural” solve a subjective need required by very, very many people for meaning, transcendence, and “why” questions.
You counter this in your second comment with a different answer to “why” questions — namingly, scathing and cold nihilism (probably tempered with existentialism, but still). If you want to do that, then fine, but then can you even WONDER why people are going to reject that for something that is more meaningful to them?
Really, the problem with faith isn’t that it doesn’t “solve a damn thing,” but that it doesn’t solve a damn thing for you or for me. It isn’t that it makes everything worse for everyone, but that we see the margins of the people who it does make it worse for and then somehow forget the vast numbers of people who are improved and find improvement from it.
I understand that the margins — where we see abuses and so on — are important enough to make us take heed. But we really do a disservice when we paint it all in one broad brush stroke.
I think what we should be fighting for is a world where people who do not need faith (and are not helped by it) are not marginalized or seen as defective or inferior. Because we're not. But at the same time, I don't think we should go so far as to maintain a system of oppressors and oppressed and just flip the role of who is oppressed and who is oppressing. So, it isn't right to wage a war on faith, but rather, we simply wage a war on the idea of faith as the 'one-size-fits-all' best option for humanity.
Oh my gosh Craig, I can't help but like you! I admit it's been awhile since I dropped by your blog, I can't believe how amused/intrigued I am, and believe it or not, I feel like I can relate to you in many ways.
As a science teacher by training, I, of course, am faced with the logical inconveniences that religion presents on a regular basis. So, as an active LDS person, I struggle with my "faith" accordingly. I do not understand why believing in ridiculousness (i.e. having "faith") would make me a better person than someone such as yourself, and more deserving of eternal rewards, simply because I ignored measurable data, and chose instead to believe in illogical, irrational, tenets! It seems absurd.
Since faith is the most basic precept of the Church, you can imagine my predicament! Still, I remain active because I am not ready to let go of the hope that maybe there IS something to all the craziness. Maybe there IS a God, and maybe he DID appear to Joseph Smith. I won't know for sure until the end. Hopefully, I'll feel more able to cling to one belief or the other before long, because remaining in the middle is DIFFICULT, and very, very lonely!
Which is why I'm a bit envious of you, for being so secure in your conviction that there IS NO God, and that it's all a load of crap. And at the same time, I find myself feeling sad for your parents, who no doubt, are lamenting the loss of your eternal salvation! You're quite an intriguing character when considering your background along with your current position. I can't help wondering what "family" events are like for you!
At least that's why I think I like reading what you have to say! Plus, you're smart, and you write really well.
So, I would like to say that I disagree with you that "the obsession humanity has with religion and faith is purely detrimental." Of course there is the potential for mindless followers to become even more mindless when swept up in their religious experience, and in large numbers, that can be downright dangerous! Agreed. But assuming that it's possible for a person to remain ethical while following a particular religious creed, I think there are benefits to society, and to an individual, by living a disciplined life.
Also, I rarely admit this to anyone because I know that I lose all credibility when I do, but I grew up in a haunted house! I, along with all my family members, had MANY inexplicable supernatural experiences over the years, and honestly, that is the biggest reason that I have remained a religious person, in spite of the overwhelming logical reasons to disbelieve. I am certain that physical death does not cause termination of the soul. Exactly what happens, I don't pretend to know, but I know that I have seen an apparition, and I'm pretty sure that I'm not crazy!
I realize that unless a person has experienced something inexplicable or "supernatural" themselves, logic demands that they dismiss those claims of others, and I totally get that! I take no offense when people are quick to explain away my claims. And really, it doesn't matter anyway, because you are COMPLETELY right!
"Personally I'm far more concerned about poverty and hunger and disease prevention, and whether I'm going to have health-care next year (let alone a job), or how to get it through the thick skulls of the crazies that all humans deserve the same treatment, and that comprehensive sex education is an amazingly good thing, and that socialism isn't going to eat your children in the middle of the night. Or how to stop our atmosphere from boiling off."
AMEN!
And who could argue with your very last thought:
"...we're not going to need a supernatural Armageddon, we're doing a dandy fine job of that all on our own, the natural way."
Indeed!!!
Thanks for letting a Mormon girl drop by and put in her two cents!
I appreciate hearing other perspectives, and it's interesting to hear your take on my thoughts.
THe only thing I would say is that I don't KNOW that there are no gods. I say 1) I don't believe in gods, and 2) I don't believe there are any gods. But I don't say that I know or have any totally firm conviction re: the supernatural. It could exist, but I think that the probability is very, very low, and there's enough other evidence and reasoning to support the theory that there is nothing supernatural, that I ascribe to that idea. It would take a lot to convince me otherwise, but I don't believe its completely, 100% impossible. I would have to have some sort of incontrovertible proof that gods don't exist, and because I don't have that, I don't take that stance.
It's perhaps a minor point, but I think an important one. I still rely on logic, reason and proof, and there's no conclusive evidence denying the existence of gods - but then again, the same can be said of unicorns and leperchauns.
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